kjorteo: Portrait of the low-res overworld model of Red XIII from Final Fantasy VII, looking grumpy. (Sigh.)
Celine & Friends Kalante ([personal profile] kjorteo) wrote2022-05-20 02:26 am
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Pokemon SoulSilver Special Aside 6: Leave dark hell behind you forever

This should be the final new recruit introduction entry for now. The idea was to adopt our newly expanded team options right when said options expanded, which mostly meant right after finishing the Johto League. However, there is one more recruit who comes from a Pokewalker course that doesn't unlock until one actually acquires the National Dex, which we did in our last stream (part 21). We finally picked him up just tonight, so it's time to introduce you to the newest of the new kids.

We've met a would-be super soldier, a pensive guardian, and a diva who works hard and plays hard. Two of them even debuted (and did incredibly) in the last entry. Now, to complete this batch of new recruits, meet a conflicted and tormented soul, a dark heart in search of redemption.


There have been clues what our last recruit was going to be, species-wise. The largest one, of course, was just the fact that it was clearly something that came from Pokewalker courses that required the National Dex (which, on this page, would be everything below Town Outskirts, starting with Hoenn Field and continuing down from there.) What could we get from here that we didn't already have access to before, that was good enough to be a major get for our new team (let's face it; "Finally, a Skitty!" is not... yeah,) and that filled a hole--perhaps coverage or representation of a particular element--that our team lacked?

As a further hint, [personal profile] xaq_the_aereon also accidentally called it a very long time ago; way back when we were first introducing and discussing the Neverending Story theme naming, he said what a pity it was that we couldn't get a [species], because they'd make a perfect [Neverending Story name]. I believe we even said that we had plans along those lines, but... you know... patience.

Four years is a lot of patience, it turns out. At long last, though, we finally have our Houndour fresh from Volcano Path.

He will of course grow into a Houndoom almost instantly (he's already high enough level to evolve, having been encountered at 26 when they evolve at 24,) unless we want to prolong the puppy phase just to learn some of his final moves earlier.

What are his final moves? Well, now we get into the whole moveset planning part of this update again, don't we.

Houndoom's physical Attack isn't a complete dump stat (though... this one's might be? With a Modest +SpA/-Atk nature and all.) However, Houndoom is still clearly more of a Special Attacker. Fire/Dark is an interesting combination that allows him to be a good powerful "you are our chosen representative of this element" pick for two different types--exactly like Auryn, though its complete opposite in typing. (Fire/Dark instead of Water/Psychic.) A phenomenon we've encountered and commented on a few times so far in this run is how those two are actually mirrors of each other; Dark has the advantage over Psychic, but Water has the advantage over Fire. Every time we've said that, though, it was a quick case of "That said, Auryn is way faster; anyway, eat Surf" and that was that for a one-hit KO. Starmie does outspeed Houndoom slightly (115 vs. 95 as a base) but within a close enough margin where that's probably more of a level, EV, and IV thing. (In return, Houndoom has about 10 more base Special Attack.) Those situations could have ended just as poorly for Auryn if Houndoom went first and hit it with a Dark move, but Auryn usually had a comfortable level advantage.

Houndoom has several good options for a Special Fire-type STAB, depending on how much power one wants versus how much of a drawback they are willing to accept. Flamethrower is its safest option: 95 power, 100% accuracy, 15 PP, does damage and has a 10% chance to inflict a Burn. Heat Wave has a very slight power boost but a comparatively larger drop in accuracy hit (100 power, 90% accuracy, 10 PP, same 10% chance to Burn but it also hits both enemies in a double battle) and... honestly, a mere 5 extra power is not worth it for that 10% accuracy hit. If one is willing to trade power for accuracy, Fire Blast is where things start to get juicy: 120 power, 85% accuracy, 5 PP, damage plus a 30% chance to Burn.

Finally, there's Overheat, which gains 20 more power and 5% more accuracy (140 Power, 90% accuracy, 5 PP) in exchange for not having any chance to Burn at all, and oh yeah there's that small tiny little matter of Overheat making the user's Special Attack drop two stages. Falkor gets away with that on her Draco Meteor because it's a "use this, like, once or maybe twice, in emergencies" move; the physical and thus unaffected Dragon Claw is still there as a standby after that. Sharply lowering SpA is probably not a good idea for the basic bread-and-butter STAB of a Special Attacker who doesn't have a physical alternative to which to switch.

So, probably either Flamethrower or Fire Blast, then. That is a pure "do I want more stability and reliability or way more power" decision.

By contrast, its Dark STAB... isn't really as big a contest. It wants Dark Pulse. That's it; that's the move. There are other options but Dark Pulse is just a pure upgrade over all of them. Sorry.

His final moves are the real question (even more so than which Fire move to put first.)

One option is to give him Sunny Day and SolarBeam. Sunny Day actually confers several advantages and thus can be used as a general setup move anyway, even without SolarBeam: It gives a rather large boost to his Fire move, along with an equally large decrease to Water-type moves which otherwise would be one of his larger weaknesses. (Alas, unlike the Rain Dance/Thunder and Hail/Blizzard synergies, Sunny Day does nothing to help Fire Blast's accuracy. Still....) Should a Water-type come along, not only would those power boosts/hits change the odds in that hypothetical Houndoom/Starmie matchup, but oh yeah, Sunny Day eliminates the wind-up turn on SolarBeam. Hi, eat a free 120-base-power Grass counter every round for as long as the sun is out.

This is probably the best strategy to pursue if one is going for the old "Countering one's counters" philosophy; of the four elements whose moves Houndoom is weak to (Fighting, Ground, Rock, and Water,) all but Fighting are themselves weak to Grass. Houndoom even resists Ice, so that whole "Water Types With Surprise Aurora Beams" thing wouldn't be as nasty a surprise as it would versus our actual Grass-type counters (Moonchild or Badgertwo.)

Still, all that said, though? "Oh no a Water type, quick, send Houndoom" isn't something that's going to happen all that often in practice. Sometimes countering one's counters isn't as good an idea as remembering that you're on a team and getting the heck out of there. So, maybe we should consider what our Houndoom would use if he isn't going to try to be cute with the Sunny Day/SolarBeam trick and is instead going to focus solely on his actual job. What remaining options are there at that point?

Erm... not very many in Gen IV, by the looks. This would be a great time to say we lucked out with another Grass-type Hidden Power again, but we didn't; his is Poison. Which, maybe, but at that point we could just give him Sludge Bomb instead. Other "ehh if you want an attack move from other elements for coverage reasons I guess" options are Shadow Ball and... um... Dream Eater? Swift??

Let's face it, the move pool for attacks outside of Fire and Dark isn't the deepest, and Houndoom might not be the ideal Pokemon to run non-attack moves. It's not really "bulky" or "tanky" enough to make a Substitute/Toxic/whatever type stalling moveset work, you know? It wants to hit things hard until they stop moving and it has some great STABs for that. It just... may not have a lot of great non-STABs for that.

Houndoom does learn Nasty Plot by level, and it seems criminal not to have that on a Special Sweeper. Do you have any idea how much Priscilla would have killed for Swords Dance for her fourth move? And this pup gets a double-power-upper just handed to him and he's going to throw it away?? But... if he's going spend a turn buffing himself or increasing his moves' power, then Sunny Day would do that just as (if not more) effectively at least for the Fire STAB while also nerfing Water moves and activating instant mode on what would otherwise be by far his best other-coverage move without its usual windup turn. (It does nothing for Dark Pulse, but oh well.) I don't know; I just feel like he needs a better third move to justify Nasty Plot being the fourth over the Sunny Day/SolarBeam synergy.

So, something like this, maybe?

Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Dark Pulse
SolarBeam
Sunny Day

Input welcome and highly desired, of course.

Finally, we get to his personality and how we see him and his potential character arc on this journey. His characteristic is "Impetuous and silly" yet his nature is Modest. That seemed like a odd mix if not an outright contradiction... until I leaned in a little closer and we made the connection.

Fiery grim little hell puppy who's nevertheless serving us--redemption arc of some sort?

Impetuous and silly, yet shy and modest when things get real? Perhaps someone who's a goofball shitposter as a way to hide his dark troubled angst?

Mother fucker. This is Kurt.

(Er, the one in our system, not the one who makes stuff out of Apricorns.)

Okay. Well. It just so happens that Kurt's been dealing with a lot of his own baggage over the past few days, so we now know exactly what this poor pup is up against. He wants not only to be seen, but to be able to see himself as something more than the edgelord he's portrayed as. He's an ex-villain who dreams of being an ex-ex-villain--that is, someone who's just there and normal, just part of the gang and all, without the "oh yeah he's an ex-villain" lens coloring that like the elephant in the room that it still kind of is. He wants to feel clean.

Oh you poor thing, you're with us now.

Lastly, all we need is a name, but that one's easy. That one we've had from the start. Xaq correctly predicted that one four years ago. Obviously, after all these years, this is our long-awaited Gmork.

And now, Gmork joins the team as its newest and currently lowest-leveled recruit (Badgertwo has been gaining a lot from the Pokewalker and is almost ready; expect his ascension to final form and battling debut next stream.) Maybe this group can give him that absolution he seeks. Hell, maybe someone can take him under their wing. He and Badgertwo do have a shared desire to find a happy life free of their respective dark pasts, one supposes.
xaq_the_aereon: I caught it...now what? (Default)

[personal profile] xaq_the_aereon 2022-05-20 09:16 am (UTC)(link)
...Happy to be of assistance with this? o.O; (I honest-to-God had to stop reading for a few minutes and hunt down the entry where I actually said that because my whole brain just went "WTF did I do this time?!")

Regardless, welcome at long last, Gmork.
xaq_the_aereon: I caught it...now what? (Default)

[personal profile] xaq_the_aereon 2022-05-20 11:46 am (UTC)(link)
https://kjorteo.dreamwidth.org/398221.html
For those looking for the entry in question.
penguinmayhem: poor audino (Audino doing what Audino does)

[personal profile] penguinmayhem 2022-05-20 03:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Me when I was in college.
penguinmayhem: The elemental mistress of booksmarts booking some more smart. (Academia)

[personal profile] penguinmayhem 2022-05-20 03:25 pm (UTC)(link)
This is gonna depend heavily on Gmork's IVs and what kind of stat growth he ends up experiencing due to whatever the heck EVs he ends up with.

If the Special Attack comes out really obviously in the lead, then strongly recommend going with Nasty Plot and either Super Fang just to deal with anything that's super bulky or Overheat for when you just want to absolutely annihilate something in two turns and go home.

However if the balance between Physical and Special turns out much closer then you've got kind of a buffet table of potential options. Between Crunch and Dark Pulse, Fire Fang and Flamethrower, it's kind of up to personal preference which two to slot, and there's Nasty Plot, Sucker Punch, obviously Sunny Day and even stuff like Double Team or Super Fang to back those up.
Personally I'm looking at something like Crunch, Flamethrower, Sunny Day/Nasty Plot and Double Team/Embargo if mostly just to fuck with Elite Four and Gym Leaders who might want to spam potions at you if the stopping power isn't quite up to scratch.


Honestly this is if anything the pokemon I slap HM moves onto because this isn't like an Umbreon where complex stall and reverse tactics are its forte or whatever, Houndoom is very much just "kill it till it dies" and you can't go wrong on that front with just the basic Dark Pulse + Flamethrower combo leaving very little room for much utility because of its typing and Fire's chronic lack of physical attacks.

Last word: if you want an excuse to use Fire Blast, get a Wide Lens to suck up the accuracy drop. Otherwise Choice Specs might make a useful addition considering Houndoom is one pokemon that's very unlikely to be switching its moves during a battle. I say, almost always just giving all my pokemon Lum Berries because fuck getting paralysed.

Hope that's helpful somehow.
penguinmayhem: The elemental mistress of booksmarts booking some more smart. (Academia)

[personal profile] penguinmayhem 2022-05-20 11:50 pm (UTC)(link)
I guess your third option really does just boil down to which particular gimmick you want to back up your Nasty Plot boosted special attack. If you want a wall counter, Super Fang. If you want to use Gmork as an opener, Sucker Punch. If you need him to counter someone's ace preemptively, Embargo. If you want him out to absolutely set everything on fire, Sunny Day.

Personally I would say that this choice very much comes down to what kind of stat growth you get as you level him up. If he ends up with decent special defense then go for Sunny Day or Super Fang but if not, just pile on the speed and go for Sucker Punch or Embargo. If his physical attack stat keeps up, then Sucker Punch. If not then you're probably looking at Fire Blast/Dark Pulse/Embargo/Nasty Plot.

Of course, this is just my perspective. Nothing stopping you from making an angry demon dog that shoots chlorophyll laser beams if you really want.


look if you really want that SunnyBeam bullshit you just wait until Ninetales gets Drought
Edited 2022-05-20 23:52 (UTC)
penguinmayhem: A very dangerous creature indeed (No Mercy!)

[personal profile] penguinmayhem 2022-05-21 06:29 am (UTC)(link)
Operation Kill It With Fire is probably Gen IV Houndoom's most obvious PvE setup and let's be real sometimes you just don't need to get fancy.

Sometimes a gun is just a gun and sometimes a very good boy just needs some edgy catharsis.
penguinmayhem: Pictured: a smug moron. (Default)

[personal profile] penguinmayhem 2022-05-21 12:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh don't worry.
penguinmayhem: Kotobuki Tsumugi from K-on! being amazing as usual. (Cool as a keyboardist.)

[personal profile] penguinmayhem 2022-05-21 12:16 pm (UTC)(link)
See I'm sentimental I would have gone for the obvious.
penguinmayhem: The elemental mistress of booksmarts booking some more smart. (Academia)

[personal profile] penguinmayhem 2022-05-21 06:14 pm (UTC)(link)
You know I think this also kinda makes Priscilla's moveset easier in a roundabout way too?

Dragon Claw Earthquake U-turn Focus Sash Flygon would be a really capable lead to both Nasty Plot Houndoom and Giant Fucking Gun Magnezone just by giving her Sunny Day or Sandstorm as the case may be, giving you the ability to deal with shit even way above Flygon's ability to OHKO things that resist her. Or just give her a Muscle Band instead and watch her shred everything if you're feeling more confident about survivability.


Okay I will stop overanalysing your pokemon now I swear I have farming to do.
penguinmayhem: Hirasawa Yui looking at cake. Or Azusa. Or Mio. Or her guitar. (Excite!)

[personal profile] penguinmayhem 2022-06-03 10:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Coming back to this comment about Starmie and Houndoom being type mirrors of each other and now I want to see Auryn and Gmork having this ridiculous overblown shonen as fuck battle to the death involving enormous explosions but they're not actually trying to kill each other they're just both actually massive drama queens deep down inside and they're both enjoying it this is anime as shit and I love it why can't I draw