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Dec. 13th, 2010 03:49 amAfter working on my team drove me mad enough that I had to use my Pokemon icons to help me sound my thought process out to myself, I think I've finally figured it out!
A big help since last time was that I actually got desperate enough to make a spreadsheet with columns for each attack's per-hit damage, how many times it hits (I entered an average if it fluctuates, like if it said 2-3 hits I'd just put in 2.5,) TP cost, and a column to math out (per-hit effectivenes * number of hits)/cost = effectiveness ratio, so I could better compare how moves compare against other moves and even against themselves (ie, what level is the best deal.) Etrian Odyssey 3 tends to punish big damage builds with significantly worse deals at max level--take Front Mortar for example, which can be cast at level 1 four times for the same total cost as one single level 10 shot, even though level 10 Front Mortar only does about one and a half times the damage as a single level 1 shot. The problem with "well fine, I'll just keep it at level one and cast it four times for the much better deal, then" is that, well, it takes four turns to get that kind of damage out. Many parties, depending on how their built, find it very much to their advantage to kill things as quickly as they can, and to them, it's worth it to pay more to get big numbers right now. My party, though, is defensive enough that they can afford to wait (if it takes them a few more turns to bring the boss down, oh well, they can still do it) and also fairly miserly about their TP due to some people not really having a lot of it. Thus, for me, mathing out the best TP deal was actually important. If you're wondering why I ended up with all three of what are supposed to be my major boss-killing damage moves (Front Mortar, Blade Rave, Bind Cut) at almost comically low levels (you really don't have a single boss-killing move on anyone in your entire party that's over level 2, Kjorteo? Really?) hopefully this is an adequate excuse for why.
Changes since last time:![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
sethimothy talked me into keeping the Parries on Samuel. He doesn't have enough free points to keep those and relieve Julian of the Monarch March line, but I thought he could maybe take something less expensive off his hands, and that small savings would help Julian bear the burden of Monarch March without having to cut as many of his other toys that he absolutely can't live without. I had a build where I gave Samuel Knighthood and Julian was able to work everything else except Reinforce (oh well, that was low priority) in comfortably. (Changing my mind about Lv. 10 Bind Cut and going for Lv. 2 Bind Cut instead helped with making room for stuff, too.) However, I changed my mind on Samuel's build and decided I didn't really need Knighthood that badly after all. Now no one has it, but... oh, well. Samuel is back to Wildling sub as before, and Julian is new and improved with Lv. 2 Bind Cut (it's the most efficient, shut up. :() Also, everyone else who had the "finished getting all the important stuff and had points left over, may as well drop one or two in whatever" problem fiddled with what random stuff receives those last few skill points a bit.
I agonized quite a lot over a lot of this, as anyone who has been following this journal knows... but unless anyone spots any serious critical "what are you doing the game is totally unplayable now D:" caliber problems with my team, I think, I think I am ready to say that this is my final answer! Whew.
( Read more... )
The good news is that, once I finally have all this worked out, I should be free to do the rest of the game and only need to struggle to build my party like this once, unless I find out that there's something later against which they just completely do not work at all and I need to start over, or something....
But yeah, I think I've finally got it!
davidn, you're pretty close to getting subclassing yourself, now, so good luck to you when you have to do all this. You'll have to let me know how this whole process goes for you and what your team looks like in the end. Mua ha ha and such.
A big help since last time was that I actually got desperate enough to make a spreadsheet with columns for each attack's per-hit damage, how many times it hits (I entered an average if it fluctuates, like if it said 2-3 hits I'd just put in 2.5,) TP cost, and a column to math out (per-hit effectivenes * number of hits)/cost = effectiveness ratio, so I could better compare how moves compare against other moves and even against themselves (ie, what level is the best deal.) Etrian Odyssey 3 tends to punish big damage builds with significantly worse deals at max level--take Front Mortar for example, which can be cast at level 1 four times for the same total cost as one single level 10 shot, even though level 10 Front Mortar only does about one and a half times the damage as a single level 1 shot. The problem with "well fine, I'll just keep it at level one and cast it four times for the much better deal, then" is that, well, it takes four turns to get that kind of damage out. Many parties, depending on how their built, find it very much to their advantage to kill things as quickly as they can, and to them, it's worth it to pay more to get big numbers right now. My party, though, is defensive enough that they can afford to wait (if it takes them a few more turns to bring the boss down, oh well, they can still do it) and also fairly miserly about their TP due to some people not really having a lot of it. Thus, for me, mathing out the best TP deal was actually important. If you're wondering why I ended up with all three of what are supposed to be my major boss-killing damage moves (Front Mortar, Blade Rave, Bind Cut) at almost comically low levels (you really don't have a single boss-killing move on anyone in your entire party that's over level 2, Kjorteo? Really?) hopefully this is an adequate excuse for why.
Changes since last time:
sethimothy talked me into keeping the Parries on Samuel. He doesn't have enough free points to keep those and relieve Julian of the Monarch March line, but I thought he could maybe take something less expensive off his hands, and that small savings would help Julian bear the burden of Monarch March without having to cut as many of his other toys that he absolutely can't live without. I had a build where I gave Samuel Knighthood and Julian was able to work everything else except Reinforce (oh well, that was low priority) in comfortably. (Changing my mind about Lv. 10 Bind Cut and going for Lv. 2 Bind Cut instead helped with making room for stuff, too.) However, I changed my mind on Samuel's build and decided I didn't really need Knighthood that badly after all. Now no one has it, but... oh, well. Samuel is back to Wildling sub as before, and Julian is new and improved with Lv. 2 Bind Cut (it's the most efficient, shut up. :() Also, everyone else who had the "finished getting all the important stuff and had points left over, may as well drop one or two in whatever" problem fiddled with what random stuff receives those last few skill points a bit.I agonized quite a lot over a lot of this, as anyone who has been following this journal knows... but unless anyone spots any serious critical "what are you doing the game is totally unplayable now D:" caliber problems with my team, I think, I think I am ready to say that this is my final answer! Whew.
( Read more... )
The good news is that, once I finally have all this worked out, I should be free to do the rest of the game and only need to struggle to build my party like this once, unless I find out that there's something later against which they just completely do not work at all and I need to start over, or something....
But yeah, I think I've finally got it!
davidn, you're pretty close to getting subclassing yourself, now, so good luck to you when you have to do all this. You'll have to let me know how this whole process goes for you and what your team looks like in the end. Mua ha ha and such.